Thanks so much, Marisa, for having me on your very lovely podcast! It was so lovely to be able to share Boan's story, and I really enjoyed our conversation we had afterwards. Grá to you!
Oh, this story. Thank you. I was listening while driving to the nearest town for a supply run, and chattering aloud to myself afterward while tears streamed down my face. What IF! What if we think about death differently, not as a sacrifice, but an entry into another world of knowing? What if the waters overflow the well and sweep her away in ecstatic union? What if death - becoming a god, or becoming an ancestor, however we want to phrase it - is a portal to knowing/becoming the mystery? What if, when we die, we become a river, always carrying the land back to the ocean? What if she gave an eye, because she was receiving the insight/sight of the Other World? There are bits of Odin, Lucia, maybe even Brigid in there, losing eyes and gaining sight. I don't know - I can't claim enough knowledge of the lore to sense how our ancestors or how Boan herself may have felt about her shift from embodied goddess to metaphysical. But. In receiving this story, connection to Boan upwelled within my heart, and for this, and all the questions it brought to light - I am grateful.
Hi Amy, what a beautiful heart-felt response! All your questions/ realisations are what myth stories, I believe, are created to stimulate... deep thought about life, the world, connections and interconnections with the more-than-human and each other, and so much more inbetween. What we take from that study, or awakening, is up to us, and we will all read something different between the lines, and that's good, because we then learn from each other. Thanks so much for listening, and for taking the time to leave your lovely comment!
Of course! A late addition as well that struck me yesterday: perhaps there is an exchange that occurs when we seek imbas forosnai - in that we must be ready to dedicate our entire self, our embodied life, to that gift. It isn't something we can receive without experiencing a complete transformation. Oh, I love how the stories keep telling us how to be alive in so many ways!
Oh my goodness, this conversation is like nectar for the soul, Amy and Ali. Míle buíochas.
I took a rather unexpected step away from just about all things digital over the last week. I mishandled a story, trying to force it to prove a point, and oh my goodness... it was like being swept away and dismembered in many ways.
I hear you about the unexpected things that imbas might ask from us, and about how hard it is to embrace such wild wisdom when so many count on us.
My own experience has me wondering about the ways in which we mistreat our imbas and try to rule it with our heads and narrow human agendas - such choices have their own consequences, too.
That is very true, Marisa... although I can't imagine you mis-handling a story at all! Your description of the consequences reminds me of what happened to Boan... maybe you were trying to gain insight from the story that was not for you, at that time. Btw I listened to you on Treacy's tv show today, you really brought a tear to my eye when you were talking about the importance of story, particularly of myth and how we should be reviving it for modern audiences, especially now in these troubled times.💕
Thank you for your reflections, Ali. I’m still stirring the cauldron, or rather sitting beside it waiting to see what bubbles arise. It’s the story of Saint Ciarán that has me all stirred up, and my relationship with Christianity is so complicated… much to consider about whether or not I’m mean to “go there” right now.
And I’m so grateful to know that my conversation with Treacy is still rippling forth. It was so wonderful to sit down with her.
They really do! Dedication is important, but in totality is difficult to achieve, especially if you have a family to raise, or a career, but building in time for it is essential. There are always distractions, and sometimes we have to just go with the flow.
Absolutely loved this gorgeous storytelling and conversation that stirred the possibilities of magic and receiving the stories for today. Thank you Marisa and Ali 💚🙏
Thank you so much, Tracy, I am delighted that you listened in, and that you enjoyed the conversation. It was my first time doing anything like this, but I felt confident in Marisa's steady guiding hands. I felt so fulfilled coming away from that lovely conversation. 💕
What a wonderfully rich and fascinating conversation! I could have listened to you both for hours. I feel so nourished by the gorgeous story Ali shared so beautifully and the chat which followed. Deep appreciation for bringing these old stories into the now and for showing us how we can relate them to our lives. Thank you 🙏✨️
Thank you so much Kelly, that means so much to me. Marisa is such a good host and keeps the conversation flowing so well. She is also very knowledgeable, and her questions dig deep. I hope I did them justice. I loved writing this story from Boan's point of view, it made me engage with the story on so many different levels that I hadn't considered before. Of course, it's only one person's interpretation; someone else's might be totally different, which is great... it just proves how much we can learn from myths and from each other. Thanks so much for listening! 💕
I agree, Marisa is a wonderful host. Super questions and I loved how unhurried the conversation was, the beautiful pauses to absorb it when so much in life feels hurried. I adored your retelling and hearing you read it and discuss it further. It was truly nourishing in so many ways. I also love that these myths give us permission to work with them and retell them in new ways when we sit with them too, so life-giving. Look forward to hearing you do more things like this Ali, seems to me it was what you were made for x
Kelly, that makes me feel so emotional! 🫶 I think you are right, the myths do give us permission, it feels like they want to be told, or even born again for modern audiences. 💕
Hi Marisa, strange how things work out. I was so focused on this podcast, and two unexpected things happened that diverted me completely. There was a death in my husband's family, so we had family from UK staying with us. At the same time I got ill and couldn't leave my bed. And I never get ill! So I have missed the conversation and am only now catching up. It's lovely to see that people have engaged with Boan's story. 💕
Oh, Ali, I am so sorry for your family's loss, and I am so sorry to hear you've been unwell.
When you've had time to fully recover from it all and time and distance start to do their magic, I wonder if you'll find that there are any parallels, of anything especially "Boannish" for you in this equinox time.
Thanks for the well-told story, Ali. I always thought the story of Boann as told by a Catholic monk's perception was a corruption of how the Celts actually told it. We all are aware of that obvious desire to squelch the female voice by the Catholic church. My guess is that, the story was more about female empowerment, and that Boann did NOT die, but rather became a powerful, wise leader. As for as the looking back part, I have noticed a strong reticence of the Irish to review history. i.e. "Oh no, we don't need to go back over how brutal the English were for centuries. That's all behind us now." "Sheela-na-gig? What's that?" btw, please read your emails. I have questions.
Thanks for listening Robin, I will go to my emails now. The female voice was definitely squelched- love that word! - out of Irish myth, and also history. But it's changing, look at the rise of Brigid, for example. It would be nice to think that Boan survived and went on to be a powerful leader, but there are no stories of that, so it will just have to live on in our imaginations.
Boan's story is such a rich and complex one! I love the idea of the Dagda stopping time for the nine months of Boan's pregnancy. There's an example of that in Norse mythology but it's not for the same tender, thoughtful reasons. It's one of the things I find so appealing in Irish myth, that there is genuine love as we understand it still. I don't think that reciprocal sentiment, equality even, is common in European mythologies.
I imagine it’s like that with all the pre-Christian myths. There are lots of versions with different outcomes. I often wonder if that was because different audiences demanded a happy/sad/bloody end or because some of them were tailored to fit a more Christian morality.
Storytellers we're often employed by a chieftain, too, in the way physicians were, but to look after the family lore rather than their health. And so all their stories would be to the glory of their patron, or rejigged to 'big up' their lord, or borrowed and the hero's name or death changed, or even reset into different eras and territories. I believe this is why there are so many different versions.
Very likely. Since there wasn’t a rigid line of succession for the chiefs and kings, the next family to have a run at the kingship might well have commissioned a different version of a favourite story.
Yes, exactly. That's why the Kings Cycle is described as 'pseudo history' and can't be taken literally... too many bards claiming lines of descent for their Lords that just don't add up. I know some people find the ambiguity of Irish myths frustrating, but I love it. It does have to be read with a clear eye and open mind though.
Yes, I’ve definitely heard that through there was a lot of emphasis on memorization in the bardic schools, there was also a lot of leeway to respond to the needs/interests of an audience. A tale can change mightily if you end it a little sooner or if you pass the cup around again and keep going.
Haha, yes! I can totally imagine that. But also, when it came to writing them down, let's not forget (male) ego. I'm sure many monk scribes felt they could improve a story and rewrote them with even more fantastic plots and different endings. I'm just glad they didn't go in for cliffhanger endings...
Or if you give it a different ending. Was she drowned or was she washed up on a lonely island? Did she kill herself or did she marry the man her father chose for her? Audiences would have had their reasons for choosing an ending that suited.
As Ali says above, our imaginations can run on and on, and we can only imagine that the ancestors did the same, whether it was the bards themselves or the listeners. I can only imagine what it was like the morning after a long story session to get back to the tasks of the day with all the possibilities of Bóinn and Dagda dancing in your head...
There is a lot of violence in mythology generally. In Irish myth too, especially when you come to characters like Cuchulainn. But there is also, in other stories, humour represented, and love and tenderness, the whole gamut of human experience. In Boan, we have the river named after the drowned woman trope, but also so much more. That extension of time within a single day happens in another Irish myth, too, but I did not know it could be found in Norse myth too... interesting! Thanks for listening!
Yes, it’s all there, what we recognise and a lot we don’t. Sometimes the ‘rightness’ of a character’s reaction is taken for granted in the myth but seems really dodgy to us. I like that they had a moral code that they stuck to, that wasn’t influenced by Christianity. Makes the stories full of unexpected decisions.
Thanks so much, Marisa, for having me on your very lovely podcast! It was so lovely to be able to share Boan's story, and I really enjoyed our conversation we had afterwards. Grá to you!
Oh, this story. Thank you. I was listening while driving to the nearest town for a supply run, and chattering aloud to myself afterward while tears streamed down my face. What IF! What if we think about death differently, not as a sacrifice, but an entry into another world of knowing? What if the waters overflow the well and sweep her away in ecstatic union? What if death - becoming a god, or becoming an ancestor, however we want to phrase it - is a portal to knowing/becoming the mystery? What if, when we die, we become a river, always carrying the land back to the ocean? What if she gave an eye, because she was receiving the insight/sight of the Other World? There are bits of Odin, Lucia, maybe even Brigid in there, losing eyes and gaining sight. I don't know - I can't claim enough knowledge of the lore to sense how our ancestors or how Boan herself may have felt about her shift from embodied goddess to metaphysical. But. In receiving this story, connection to Boan upwelled within my heart, and for this, and all the questions it brought to light - I am grateful.
Hi Amy, what a beautiful heart-felt response! All your questions/ realisations are what myth stories, I believe, are created to stimulate... deep thought about life, the world, connections and interconnections with the more-than-human and each other, and so much more inbetween. What we take from that study, or awakening, is up to us, and we will all read something different between the lines, and that's good, because we then learn from each other. Thanks so much for listening, and for taking the time to leave your lovely comment!
Of course! A late addition as well that struck me yesterday: perhaps there is an exchange that occurs when we seek imbas forosnai - in that we must be ready to dedicate our entire self, our embodied life, to that gift. It isn't something we can receive without experiencing a complete transformation. Oh, I love how the stories keep telling us how to be alive in so many ways!
Oh my goodness, this conversation is like nectar for the soul, Amy and Ali. Míle buíochas.
I took a rather unexpected step away from just about all things digital over the last week. I mishandled a story, trying to force it to prove a point, and oh my goodness... it was like being swept away and dismembered in many ways.
I hear you about the unexpected things that imbas might ask from us, and about how hard it is to embrace such wild wisdom when so many count on us.
My own experience has me wondering about the ways in which we mistreat our imbas and try to rule it with our heads and narrow human agendas - such choices have their own consequences, too.
Again, thank you both!
That is very true, Marisa... although I can't imagine you mis-handling a story at all! Your description of the consequences reminds me of what happened to Boan... maybe you were trying to gain insight from the story that was not for you, at that time. Btw I listened to you on Treacy's tv show today, you really brought a tear to my eye when you were talking about the importance of story, particularly of myth and how we should be reviving it for modern audiences, especially now in these troubled times.💕
Thank you for your reflections, Ali. I’m still stirring the cauldron, or rather sitting beside it waiting to see what bubbles arise. It’s the story of Saint Ciarán that has me all stirred up, and my relationship with Christianity is so complicated… much to consider about whether or not I’m mean to “go there” right now.
And I’m so grateful to know that my conversation with Treacy is still rippling forth. It was so wonderful to sit down with her.
They really do! Dedication is important, but in totality is difficult to achieve, especially if you have a family to raise, or a career, but building in time for it is essential. There are always distractions, and sometimes we have to just go with the flow.
Absolutely loved this gorgeous storytelling and conversation that stirred the possibilities of magic and receiving the stories for today. Thank you Marisa and Ali 💚🙏
Oh, I am so grateful to know the story touched your heart, dear Treacy! I hope your day is rich with possibility! 🌀✨💚
Oh yes! And Boann and Brigid are alive in these possibilities with us ✨️🌀💚
Thank you so much, Tracy, I am delighted that you listened in, and that you enjoyed the conversation. It was my first time doing anything like this, but I felt confident in Marisa's steady guiding hands. I felt so fulfilled coming away from that lovely conversation. 💕
What a wonderfully rich and fascinating conversation! I could have listened to you both for hours. I feel so nourished by the gorgeous story Ali shared so beautifully and the chat which followed. Deep appreciation for bringing these old stories into the now and for showing us how we can relate them to our lives. Thank you 🙏✨️
Thank you so much Kelly, that means so much to me. Marisa is such a good host and keeps the conversation flowing so well. She is also very knowledgeable, and her questions dig deep. I hope I did them justice. I loved writing this story from Boan's point of view, it made me engage with the story on so many different levels that I hadn't considered before. Of course, it's only one person's interpretation; someone else's might be totally different, which is great... it just proves how much we can learn from myths and from each other. Thanks so much for listening! 💕
I agree, Marisa is a wonderful host. Super questions and I loved how unhurried the conversation was, the beautiful pauses to absorb it when so much in life feels hurried. I adored your retelling and hearing you read it and discuss it further. It was truly nourishing in so many ways. I also love that these myths give us permission to work with them and retell them in new ways when we sit with them too, so life-giving. Look forward to hearing you do more things like this Ali, seems to me it was what you were made for x
Kelly, that makes me feel so emotional! 🫶 I think you are right, the myths do give us permission, it feels like they want to be told, or even born again for modern audiences. 💕
Thank you both for your kind words, Kelly and Ali.
And YES to more spaces for Ali to share her gentle, penetrating wisdom.
Oh, Kelly, thank you. It means the world to know you're listening and to know that our words wrapped round you too.
Hi Marisa, strange how things work out. I was so focused on this podcast, and two unexpected things happened that diverted me completely. There was a death in my husband's family, so we had family from UK staying with us. At the same time I got ill and couldn't leave my bed. And I never get ill! So I have missed the conversation and am only now catching up. It's lovely to see that people have engaged with Boan's story. 💕
Oh, Ali, I am so sorry for your family's loss, and I am so sorry to hear you've been unwell.
When you've had time to fully recover from it all and time and distance start to do their magic, I wonder if you'll find that there are any parallels, of anything especially "Boannish" for you in this equinox time.
Sending love and gratitude to you.
Marisa... that is so interesting. Thank you, I will think more about that...
Thanks for the well-told story, Ali. I always thought the story of Boann as told by a Catholic monk's perception was a corruption of how the Celts actually told it. We all are aware of that obvious desire to squelch the female voice by the Catholic church. My guess is that, the story was more about female empowerment, and that Boann did NOT die, but rather became a powerful, wise leader. As for as the looking back part, I have noticed a strong reticence of the Irish to review history. i.e. "Oh no, we don't need to go back over how brutal the English were for centuries. That's all behind us now." "Sheela-na-gig? What's that?" btw, please read your emails. I have questions.
Thanks for listening Robin, I will go to my emails now. The female voice was definitely squelched- love that word! - out of Irish myth, and also history. But it's changing, look at the rise of Brigid, for example. It would be nice to think that Boan survived and went on to be a powerful leader, but there are no stories of that, so it will just have to live on in our imaginations.
Boan's story is such a rich and complex one! I love the idea of the Dagda stopping time for the nine months of Boan's pregnancy. There's an example of that in Norse mythology but it's not for the same tender, thoughtful reasons. It's one of the things I find so appealing in Irish myth, that there is genuine love as we understand it still. I don't think that reciprocal sentiment, equality even, is common in European mythologies.
Oh, I love the way this story keeps revealing more facets every time it’s held in another set of hands.
I imagine it’s like that with all the pre-Christian myths. There are lots of versions with different outcomes. I often wonder if that was because different audiences demanded a happy/sad/bloody end or because some of them were tailored to fit a more Christian morality.
Storytellers we're often employed by a chieftain, too, in the way physicians were, but to look after the family lore rather than their health. And so all their stories would be to the glory of their patron, or rejigged to 'big up' their lord, or borrowed and the hero's name or death changed, or even reset into different eras and territories. I believe this is why there are so many different versions.
Very likely. Since there wasn’t a rigid line of succession for the chiefs and kings, the next family to have a run at the kingship might well have commissioned a different version of a favourite story.
Yes, exactly. That's why the Kings Cycle is described as 'pseudo history' and can't be taken literally... too many bards claiming lines of descent for their Lords that just don't add up. I know some people find the ambiguity of Irish myths frustrating, but I love it. It does have to be read with a clear eye and open mind though.
Yes, I’ve definitely heard that through there was a lot of emphasis on memorization in the bardic schools, there was also a lot of leeway to respond to the needs/interests of an audience. A tale can change mightily if you end it a little sooner or if you pass the cup around again and keep going.
Haha, yes! I can totally imagine that. But also, when it came to writing them down, let's not forget (male) ego. I'm sure many monk scribes felt they could improve a story and rewrote them with even more fantastic plots and different endings. I'm just glad they didn't go in for cliffhanger endings...
Or if you give it a different ending. Was she drowned or was she washed up on a lonely island? Did she kill herself or did she marry the man her father chose for her? Audiences would have had their reasons for choosing an ending that suited.
As Ali says above, our imaginations can run on and on, and we can only imagine that the ancestors did the same, whether it was the bards themselves or the listeners. I can only imagine what it was like the morning after a long story session to get back to the tasks of the day with all the possibilities of Bóinn and Dagda dancing in your head...
Especially when they are as real as your own family.
There is a lot of violence in mythology generally. In Irish myth too, especially when you come to characters like Cuchulainn. But there is also, in other stories, humour represented, and love and tenderness, the whole gamut of human experience. In Boan, we have the river named after the drowned woman trope, but also so much more. That extension of time within a single day happens in another Irish myth, too, but I did not know it could be found in Norse myth too... interesting! Thanks for listening!
Yes, it’s all there, what we recognise and a lot we don’t. Sometimes the ‘rightness’ of a character’s reaction is taken for granted in the myth but seems really dodgy to us. I like that they had a moral code that they stuck to, that wasn’t influenced by Christianity. Makes the stories full of unexpected decisions.
Wow Ali! You're a pro! And yes Marisa's holding and guiding is so beautiful. We'll have to arrange more opportunities for you 😄